A2 CofC Changes

eckydrone200 · Dec 8, 2020

Just been caught out submitting my Practical Flight Training Record to obtain my A2 CofC. The CAA have altered the requirements last week which I wasn't aware of so have to do an extra couple of hours flight time. Probably won't affect too many people on here but anyone new to drones that is trying to rush it through should check. The practical element of the test requires in excess of 8 hrs flying time with a minimum of 2 hrs in the last 3 months. Maybe everyone is aware of these amendments but thought I should post it just in case as the new rules apply to everyone including those that may have started their course and may only have the practical element to complete.

Drumsagard · Dec 8, 2020

"Submitting my Practical Flight Training Record" - Is this new? I passed my A2 CofC two months ago and didn't have to do this. Just an online exam and self declaration of your flying time. There is no practical element of the A2 CofC.

eckydrone200 · Dec 8, 2020

It is the self declaration that has changed as far as I am led to believe as the place I am doing it through said it was changed after a recent meeting with the CAA.

eckydrone200 · Dec 8, 2020

Have just scanned through the relevant section of CAP 722B 2nd Edition from December 2019 and it says nothing about 8 hrs or 2 hrs in last 3 months. I was expecting to see an amended document from CAA appearing online.

Drumsagard · Dec 8, 2020

eckydrone200 said:
It is the self declaration that has changed as far as I am led to believe as the place I am doing it through said it was changed after a recent meeting with the CAA.

CAP722 is now up to it's Eighth Edition, came out on 05/11/2020, though haven't looked at it yet.

eckydrone200 · Dec 8, 2020

I will try and search for that one as all the links take me to the 2nd edition. Thanks for that info.

old man mavic · Dec 8, 2020

i may be wrong on this but i think you are confusing the A2 C of C with the requirements of the GVC which is the higher course requirement if you wish to conduct commercial operations with drones in the specific category ,which is similar to the outgoing PFCO, which to keep current requires a minimum amount of air time to be logged within a time frame ,and logs to be sent to the CAA to be checked ,these requirements are needed if you wish to fly in any category that can not be done under the open category ,such as special permissions to fly in restricted air space ,or close to sensitive areas

Cymru · Dec 8, 2020

I cant see the changes in 722 but it might be a different document.
As far as i can see its still self-certification and id guess anyone prepared to pay for A2CoC already has well over the hours recommended.

GVC currency is in there but i dont think those have changed either although admittedly im not keeping tabs on it too much.

Im just going to wait and read whatever version of whatever documents are in force on Jan 1st!

eckydrone200 · Dec 8, 2020

old man mavic said:
i may be wrong on this but i think you are confusing the A2 C of C with the requirements of the GVC which is the higher course requirement if you wish to conduct commercial operations with drones in the specific category ,which is similar to the outgoing PFCO, which to keep current requires a minimum amount of air time to be logged within a time frame ,and logs to be sent to the CAA to be checked ,these requirements are needed if you wish to fly in any category that can not be done under the open category ,such as special permissions to fly in restricted air space ,or close to sensitive areas

I also read that and thought that the training provider was referencing the GVC and confusing it with the A2 CofC though I would find that hard to believe when they are an RAE. I did email them back and when they replied this morning I phoned them and spoke to one of the trainers and that was when he told me the legislation had changed. I think I need to phone the CAA drone contact number to see if I can get clarification.

eckydrone200 · Dec 8, 2020

Cymru said:
I cant see the changes in 722 but it might be a different document.
As far as i can see its still self-certification and id guess anyone prepared to pay for A2CoC already has well over the hours recommended.

GVC currency is in there but i dont think those have changed either although admittedly im not keeping tabs on it too much.

Im just going to wait and read whatever version of whatever documents are in force on Jan 1st!

Thanks for your reply. I can't see any changes either and have just had a quick scan through the 8th edition and still see nothing. I'm sure I read somewhere in GVC Currency that you had to have minimum 2 hrs flight time in past 3 months but nowhere in A2 CofC is it mentioned. I would have thought if legislation had changed it would be updated immediately on all relevant sites, especially the CAA.

old man mavic · Dec 8, 2020

eckydrone200 said:
I also read that and thought that the training provider was referencing the GVC and confusing it with the A2 CofC though I would find that hard to believe when they are an RAE. I did email them back and when they replied this morning I phoned them and spoke to one of the trainers and that was when he told me the legislation had changed. I think I need to phone the CAA drone contact number to see if I can get clarification.

the only thing that comes to mind after some more thought is it could have something to do with those people who currently have a PFCO and who will have to move over to the new GVC when their current PFCO runs out ,or it could also be if pilots with the current PFCO wish to carry on with their current PFCO, because they have recently renewed it ,then they will have to do additional logged air time, to enable them to keep the benefits it gives after 31 st December 2020

eckydrone200 · Dec 8, 2020

Thanks for your input OMM. I cannot find anything online that states there is a minimum amount of hrs for practical element of A2 CofC or 2 hrs within last 3 months. Surely the RAE are able to differentiate between the courses and the legislation that applies to each type of qualification. I just hope that they are right in what they say re the flight times as I am going to struggle to get an additional 2 hrs in this month due to work and especially the weather. I think I will phone CAA and ask them if any changes have been made, and also if my flight time qualifies me for certificate. If they say it does I guess I'll have to go back to training provider and take it up with them. Don't get me wrong, I am not against doing the additional hrs if it is a requirement as the more practice the better but it is a bit frustrating if I have done enough to obtain the certificate but there is a misinterpretation of the rules that stops me receiving it.

Cymru · Dec 8, 2020

eckydrone200 said:
Thanks for your reply. I can't see any changes either and have just had a quick scan through the 8th edition and still see nothing. I'm sure I read somewhere in GVC Currency that you had to have minimum 2 hrs flight time in past 3 months but nowhere in A2 CofC is it mentioned. I would have thought if legislation had changed it would be updated immediately on all relevant sites, especially the CAA.

The 8th edition of 722 mentions GVC currency page 191 but its brief. No mention of A2CoC although ill admit i havent poured through the thrilling 200+ pages of exciting detail in there...

Just to add to the confusion:-

Updates about drones | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Information on the latest guidance and developments relating to drones

www.caa.co.uk

Reduction in UAS flying currency requirements
Understandably in the current situation UAS operators/remote pilots have found it increasingly difficult to maintain their two hours of flying currency within the last three months, leading up to the renewal of their Permission or Exemption.

We require these hours so that remote pilots retain the necessary skills required to operate unmanned aircraft safely. It also helps to make sure systems are in good working order prior to conducting operations by having any required software updates downloaded, installed and tested, as well as ensuring batteries are in a safe condition for flight.

As an interim measure, we will now require operators/remote pilots to use their unmanned aircraft for one hour, prior to undertaking any operation. This allows operators to check their unmanned aircraft is performing correctly following a period of storage. Remote pilots will also be required to undertake a minimum of one take-off and landing to ensure they have refreshed their competence of operating unmanned aircraft, and to make sure they are working to the processes and procedures defined in their relevant operations manual. Records/logs for these flights must be maintained for the UAS Unit to check compliance during any future oversight audits.

We will let you know when his interim measure will cease once the UK Government has lifted the COVID-19 restrictions.

eckydrone200 · Dec 8, 2020

Thanks again for reply. Like you, I have just had a quick scan through the document and see no reference to A2 CofC as far as flight times go but I probably need to take more time over it.

Cymru · Dec 8, 2020

On the plus side to me, an unavoidable technical glitch today (ok, i forget to check shutter speed was fast enough given low light levels) means the entire series of Ortho flights i flew today are blurred so i need to redo it all tomorrow. Double the hours, i have currency

old man mavic · Dec 8, 2020

Cymru said:
The 8th edition of 722 mentions GVC currency page 191 but its brief. No mention of A2CoC although ill admit i havent poured through the thrilling 200+ pages of exciting detail in there...

Just to add to the confusion:-

Updates about drones | UK Civil Aviation Authority

Information on the latest guidance and developments relating to drones

www.caa.co.uk

just had a look on the CAA site and there is at the moment a revision to the two hours of flight time , down to 1 hour ,due to covid ,restrictions and applies to professional pilots with current permissions ,

Mazdaman323lx · Dec 9, 2020

I'D love to do a A2 C of C or a part 107 equivalent.
Best I can get in Eire is a IAA approved , two day pilot competency course , only costs 700 euro or 850 dollars , plus the two days off work to do it

jnatt · Dec 9, 2020

I did my A2 CofC end of November and submitted a self declaration of approximate hours and what I had been flying.. and was asks roughly how many hours in last 3 month as part of the declaration

old man mavic · Dec 9, 2020

jnatt said:
I did my A2 CofC end of November and submitted a self declaration of approximate hours and what I had been flying.. and was asks roughly how many hours in last 3 month as part of the declaration

@jnatt ,i dont dispute what you are saying ,i too did my A2 C of C in November just went back over the course to the self declaration section ,read all the things that the self declaration asks that you are able to know how to do, and nowhere on the requirements did it ask how many Hours had i flown in the past 3 months, are you sure you it was the A2 C of C you were doing and not the GVC

jnatt · Dec 9, 2020

My course provider gave me an example of a declaration and it could also be the same example that they give out for GVC that they also do.. mine was definitely A2 CofC.. does GVC not have a flight assessment?